He Told You So: UTEP's Tim Floyd Cleared By NCAA For Alleged USC Misconduct

First

“CTF Found Guilty! Of not maintaining better oversight of the peripheral activities associated with his student-athletes and the program in general.”

 — Now that should have been my headline- absolute genius.

Second

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Garrett is absolutely delusional.

"As I read the decision by the NCAA, all I could get out of all of this was … I read between the lines and there was nothing but a lot of envy, and they wish they all were Trojans," Garrett said to cheers Thursday night at the San Francisco Airport Marriott.

The NCAA sanctioned USC because they are envious. It had nothing to do with the $300,000 Reggie Bush too. It had nothing to do with the fact that their RB’s coach knew about all of it and there were phone records to prove that.

It was all envy. Fight on?

Whenever we can make use of lines from Billy Madison, it’s a good day.

It doesn’t make it right, but Mayo was going to play somewhere. Floyd knew that. I don’t see why he would stop recruiting anybody who’s been cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse. What the compliance office should have done is contacted the NCAA, and asked for some sort of ruling on Mayo’s amateur status, but they never did that.

Beasley had a signed LOI at the time, Floyd was committing a secondary violation, one K State actually said they were going to file a complaint about.

That’s true, and Floyd couldn’t recruit him at that point. But, if you read the fact findings you’ll see that Floyd never contacted Beasley (start at page 53). Beasley’s mother, in fact, called Floyd and told him that to call the AAU coach. The coach told Floyd Beasley wanted money, Floyd said no, and was never again in contact with anyone from Beasley’s camp.

That Floyd had to GOOGLE Guillory 3 weeks after the famous meeting to find out who he was is more proof of how bad USC’s controls were. There were lots of people there who should have known who Guillory was.

I agree; USC clearly had some suspect controls in place. But, Floyd wasn’t the compliance director or the AD who hired the compliance director. He was the basketball coach, and accordingly, the program was penalized for not keeping a tighter grip on their horses. There were no fact findings that Floyd committed any secondary violations.

Even if he did, do you really think a show-cause is adequate for a couple of secondary violations? Lane Kiffin picks up 2-3 secondary violations before breakfast and flaunts the fact that they don’t mean anything. Sampson was given a show cause only after repeatedly violating major violations at two schools. You think Floyd deserves that for secondaries? That punishment is not nearly proportional.

If the NCAA placed a show cause on every coach found to have committed secondary violations the wheels on the whole system would stop.

Definition of flimflam: deceptive talk: talk that confuses or deceives – that is exactly what you’re trying to do! Spin your version of the facts. In lieu of accepting the NCAA report you insist on poking holes as if you have some sort of “insider information” that the NCAA didn’t have access to?! It’s difficult to know where to begin with you as you’re all over the place, however I will do my “flimflam” best…

The USC fans kept saying it’s because other schools knew Mayo wasn’t interested but that was completely untrue as we can tell from the claims of Beasley’s mom and the assistant coach at K State Brad Underwood(who said that Mayo called Huggins asking for a ride and was told we can’t take you we don’t think you’ll pass amateur status)

So we’re supposed to accept "the claims of Beasley’s mom? The woman who contacted CTF directly looking for a handout? You voice Brad Underwood yet I don’t see any reference to him anywhere in this report? Perhaps I’ve missed it somewhere?

We know it happened, fellow recruit Dominique Sutton told reporters it happened, that Beasley told him he’d spoken to Floyd and Floyd told him USC will take us both(Beasley and Sutton).

“We”…who’s “WE”? Ohh, that’s right Dominique Sutton told reporters it happened. And yet reporters also claimed that there was a “$1000 dollar envelope payment” made to Guillroy directly by CTF. So I’m sure that I should, or should I say “we” , believe that Sutton didn’t expound on his version of the truth? Again, please help me where this is sited in the NCAA report.

There were so many other issues with Floyd at USC, all the package deals, all the kids qualifying via BYU online etc.
It not only wasn’t a secret it was blatantly public that Mayo wasn’t an amateur, if Floyd didn’t know that he was the only coach in America who didn’t by that point.

“Package deals”? You mean hiring a recruit and giving their father a staff position? Recruiting one player in order to get a second recruit? If this is your meaning by “package deal”, then I hate to burst your bubble but this is done nation wide and is not considered a violation.
Apparently, according to you and your “sources” the assertions that “it wasn’t a secret” and “it was blatanly public that Mayo wasn’t an amateur” was apparently also unknown to the NCAA as they cleared him through their clearing house?!

He made a conscious decision to ignore all the red flags, he should be held accountable for that. The reason USC got nailed was because of the total Lack of Institutional Control, as bad as the football stuff was with Bush etc, there was an equal lack of control in Basketball.
Floyd told the LA Times that never happened, when they told him they had the video of the interview he said I’ll get back to you. He later claimed Cantu had the whole thing cleared with USC compliance months ago, how does he go from never happened to cleared months ago in one day?

This point I agree with you on…to a certain extent. There’s no doubt that there was a total lack of institutional control in both programs and the NCAA report established this point. Yet you further berate this point by voicing confusion of how CTF reports that one thing didn’t happen yet the following day claims it was cleared through USC compliance. What’s the issue? We’ve already established a lack of oversight and control in the program so why is this “shocking”? I’d say that this is how loose the programs were and that CTF didn’t know about this item until he made his own inquiry into the matter. I’ve gone on record as stating that CTF was guilty of not maintaining better oversight of the peripheral activities associated with his student-athletes and the program in general. Although this is a ding on his "managment skills" it doesn’t make him a "cheater"!

I semi agree with you that’s compliance’s job but read the report again. Floyd talks to Beasley who essentially asks for money and does Floyd tell his AD or compliance, no, he asks Mayo about it. Floyd talks to Barnes the AAU coach who essentially asks for money and does Floyd tell Garrett or Compliance, no, he tells nobody. Do you think it’s maybe possible if Floyd had told Compliance those 2 stories they would have come back and said ok now we’re not advising you, now we’re ordering you stop recruiting OJ Mayo?

This point was further stipulated to in that “the committee did infer that CTF stopped short of complete follow-through with his inquiry of the activities surrounding Mayo.” Again, you speculate what USC Compliance would have “ordered”? Is this the same Compliance committe that you previously questioned regarding the courtside tickets to the Laker game? Oh I see, we should give them the benefit of the doubt when it suits your argument but not when it doesn’t. Sorry brother, you can’t have it both ways!

In the end what did USC in was the lack of control and Floyd’s program was just as bad as football and he should have been hit with a show cause. Part of the reason football got worse is 2 of the violating coaches were rehired, Kiffin and Ed Orgeron. Basketball got it lighter in part because Floyd’s not there anymore.

This statment is beyond ridiculous! The reason football got it worse was because “student-athlete 1” rec’d upwards of $300K in monies and benefits! This was further compounded by the fact that members of the coaching staff had full knowledge of these tran$action$. Basketball got it lighter because the infractions don’t compare to those of the football program. Additionally, the University had already imposed sanctions on themselves. Historically, if an institution self-imposes santions that are equal to or greater than what it would have recieved by the NCAA they will not further employ action. You can’t expect that the NCAA would retroactively state “you know what, you were too hard on yourself so you don’t have to serve out any further action, thank you for being so diligent with your own punishment”. Wrong answer! It’s my belief that the BB program would not have recieved as severe a punishment that they had self-imposed. The facts of the investigation don’t support it. More thank likely they would’ve lost one scholarship and a reduction in recruiting days with the addition of probation. It has nothing to do with CTF as they could’ve easily imposed sanctions on him at UTEP. That was not the case.

In the future, please prevent me from having to reconcile all your “flimflam” by placing more facts in your arguments rather than your perceptions.

And I have to admit, FF, you clearly have a better memory of Mayo’s recruitment than I do. I didn’t follow it as I had no personal interest in it at the time. I do remember Mayo being one the highest profile recruit in that class, and after the year Durant had the year before, there was heightened attention on that class because everyone wanted to see if Mayo could have an impact like KD did at Texas.

I think Miner Mike and I see eye to eye on a vast majority of your points.

I think we all agree that USC’s compliance office was clearly toothless and that they created an environment not unlike the wild west. I mean we all say Will Ferrell on the sidelines, Snoop Dogg at practices, and other un-collegiate activity and nobody put 2 and 2 together until the Yahoo! story came out.

When Beasley’s AAU coach asked for money, you assume that Floyd had a duty to tell compliance. I think it’s quite the contrary. Floyd isn’t required by any Bylaw, that I have ever read, to affirmatively report suspected violations at other schools. I think that Floyd said “we don’t pay” and that was it. Was he supposed to call a press conference and out an 18 year old kid for wanting money? I’m sure many high profile players ask coaches similar questions. They’ve seen Blue Chips too. I don’t think a coach has to out a kid for being unsure about hos the process actually works.

In the end what did USC in was the lack of control and Floyd’s program was just as bad as football and he should have been hit with a show cause.

Pete Carroll didn’t even get a show-cause!! And you think Floyd should? Compare the two:

1. Carroll SET UP the internship between Bush and the New Era guys; Guillory and Mayo knew each other well before Floyd came into the picture
2. Carroll spent three years with Bush, during two of which he was taking money; Floyd spent one season with Mayo
3. Bush’s family lived in CA, so it was easier for Carroll to notice sudden changes of wealth. Bush took $300k in gifts! Mayo got a T-Mobile sidekick and under $1,000 that was wired to his GF.
4. Most damning of all, Michaels and Lake called USC’s Running backs coach and told them what went down. Carroll had direct knowledge that Reggie took money from New Era. (The RB coach got a show-cause). Floyd never had affirmative knowledge that Guillory was giving Mayo anything. There was no proof showing that Floyd knew about the cell phone, tv, or cash. If there was, this would be a different ball game.

Do you think Carroll deserves a show-cause?

I’ve researched the NCAA enforcement process and I do agree that something has to be done to give secondary violations some teeth. The language delineating the difference between the two kinds of infractions is vague and totally subjective in nature. The entire category is overbroad and the lack of any coherent punishment systems for secondary violations leads to abuse.

Like I said, Lane Kiffin committed something like 20 secondary violations at Tennessee last summer. Gene Chizik had something like 4-5 related to recruiting events he had at Auburn. (I can get exact numbers if you want, but I remember there were multiple for each).

They received no punishment. Carroll brought agents into the program, set up a program to get his players internships with agents, and created a Hollywood vibe on the sidelines in an effort to improve recruiting. No show cause. Floyd recruited the #1 prospect in the country, who was cleared by the NCAA, and who had offers from other schools (according to Rivals) and you think he deserves a show-cause? Floyd didn’t set up an internship with Mayo and Guillory. Floyd didn’t introduce them. Floyd didn’t see Mayo’s family on road trips at Hawaii. Mayo didn’t roll up to practice in a $17,000 custom Impala with #3000 rims.

Who else deserves a show-cause in your book? Derrick Rose didn’t even take his SAT’s! Does Calipari deserve a show-cause? I think that might be more egregious behavior than a phone call. I appreciate your points and you honestly helped me remember alot of the intricacies involved that had escaped my memory, but a show-cause is where you lose me. Sampson broke the rules. Indiana hired him, he was sanctioned. Then he broke the rules again. Then, they fired a coach who fell on the sword for him. Then, he broke the rules again. After his third strike with major infractions he was given a show cause. It took him getting caught three times. With a paper trail.

That’s what it took for a show cause. I don’ thing Floyd’s conduct is near that. Had there been proof of the cash gift, the $1,000, it would be a different story. But that was clearly a fabrication by Guillory, as evidenced by the fact the NCAA didn’t even consider that in its report.

(please forgive typo’s and sloppiness in this response, it’s late!)

Like your gripe isn’t really with Floyd. It’s with the NCAA Enforcement and Compliance process in general. Floyd didn’t do anything that every other coach in America wouldn’t have done. He took the #1 kid in America who was cleared by the NCAA. That’s it He didn’t give him any money. There’s no proof he had any knowledge Mayo received money. Accordingly, he wasn’t punished. Should the NCAA tighten the recruitment process? Yes. Should they kick Nike and Reebok out of high school gyms? Yes. Should they start talking about banning “package deals.” I’m not sure they have the authority to do that, but they should look in to it. Should they look into high school hoops factories/prep academies? Yes. But, they aren’t doing that. You, and I, may not like the boundaries the NCAA has established in high school recruiting. But, as long as the rules are the way that they are, all we can ask is for our coaches to play within those boundaries. The report evidences that Floyd did that.

I don’t care what reporters say might have been going through Floyd’s mind 4 years ago. I want to know what can be proved? What actually happened? The NCAA conducted a 4 year investigation, talked with hundreds of witnesses (including Floyd), reviewed documents and bank statements, and came away with the fact that Floyd didn’t do anything to merit placing any sanction on him independently.

Gary Parrish or Gregg Doyel’s retrospective looks at what went down don’t matter. What matters is what the NCAA, after exhausting four years of research and investigation, discovered.

You still assert some righteousness by the ’who’s-who’ of collegiate basketball coaches with the exception of CTF?! What exactly is your pickaxe (pun intended) that you’re trying to grind with CTF? You voice the virtuosity of Bob Huggins, Ben Howland, Brad Underwood and, for God sakes, you even paint AD Garrett is some sort of honorable picture. Let’s shed a little bit more light on the ‘Sacred Cows’ you exemplify. This time through clearer glass other than the fanciful skewing of your prism. And I quote:

Kansas State spokesman Tom Gilbert issued the following statement: “Neither Kansas State, nor anyone who has been employed by the university, has firsthand knowledge of any improprieties in the recruitment of O.J. Mayo. In his speech to the Rotary group, assistant coach Brad Underwood was speaking in generalities about his recruitment by K-State. We are unaware of any specific instances of NCAA violations involving Mr. Mayo.” Neither Underwood nor Wildcats head coach Frank Martin were available for comment.

Again, no where in the NCAA’s findings do they site issues with the ‘recruitment’ of Mayo by CTF directly, but rather the items surrounding his tenure while already enrolled as a student-athlete. The fact it was later ruled that Guillory should’ve been deemed a “booster” is a retroactive finding. Again I quote:

Floyd said that the “best vetting process in the world” is through the media and that he intentionally floated to the media the name Rodney Guillory in order to try to find out if the Mayo associate was a runner or an agent. Floyd said nothing of the sort ever came back to him in the time before Mayo arrived on campus. According to NCAA rules, Guillory was ultimately ruled a USC booster.
“Were we suspicious? Everybody, everybody in college basketball is suspicious of everybody,” Floyd said. “That’s just the way it is. You have to be. But he [Mayo] was vetted by the NCAA as well. The same man doing the investigation of SC is the same man who vetted him through the amateurism committee and talked to him and Rodney Guillory for three hours. They cleared him to play.”

Once a player’s been vetted through the two default oversight committees at every coaches disposal, University and NCAA clearing houses, it is done. It appears that your unreasonable expectation is that ‘he should’ve done more’. As someone who has a vast amount of experience with the hiring of employees at my department we place every prospect through the rigors of Criminal Background Investigation, Work History Investigation, Licensure Confirmation and Reference Examination. If the recruit meets the standard, their deemed eligible. End of story. Should something surface later it is addressed accordingly. Again, we’ve already established that the poor oversight CTF maintained over the program is completely his fault. Who knows, this may be by design with some of these Top Tier programs.
Moreover, you continue to boast your opinions and opinions of columnists and editorialists and relay them as gospel yet fail to quote the investgative facts. Even the quotes you provide by said columnists are musings and opinions that lack any corroboration. Yet you’d have us believe that Parrish, Doyel, yourself and other similar minion somehow have more knowledge and information than the NCAA committee had access to. This is ludicrous. Finally, you infer that due to the fact this investigation was “only” conducted for 2 years and they lack subponea power that the findings of the investigation are inadequate. This is a double edged sword brother! I would argue that without the quality controls you mention the burden of proof is even greater on the defendants as they have to convince a committee of their innocense who are only driven by a consensus decision and hypothosis rather than a unanimous one soley based on the facts. CTF had his day in court and received the decision. It is what it is…..finished! Anything else is just conjecture and bares ZERO relevance.